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Monday, June 29th, 2009 21:00
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[personal profile] hederahelix: Sizeism in fic and society

'Cis' is hostile? I remember being quite pleased the first time I became aware of 'cis' and related terms - it filled a lexical hole that I had not realized was there.

Weird passage of time at work today - doing really tedious stuff apparently makes the day fly by. Probably because I can devote a portion of my brain to pre-writing.

Date: 2009-06-30 02:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jezrana.livejournal.com
Re: the last link, I feel the same way as you do about 'cis' filling a hole in my vocabulary I hadn't realized was there, and I think if someone's going to object to 'cis', they should suggest an alternate term that doesn't have transphobic connotations. I'm not aware of any terms that serve as well as 'cis' does, and I didn't read the entire linked discussion, but in the original comment complaining about 'cis', at least, I didn't see any alternate term offered.

Date: 2009-06-30 02:30 (UTC)
From: [personal profile] saystheheart
I was rather baffled by the idea that cis is offensive as well. I agree, it serves a place in my vocabulary that had been lacking until I came across it.

Date: 2009-06-30 04:13 (UTC)
tiltingheartand: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tiltingheartand
... uh. Personally I love the use of cis- because it appeals to the chem nerd in me. (Also, as far as that goes, I agree with you -- as well as Jez and Aly -- that it fills a hole in my vocabulary.)


Date: 2009-07-01 17:09 (UTC)
tiltingheartand: (sometimes i'm a chemist)
From: [personal profile] tiltingheartand
:D Hokay, so.

This is a long-chain hydrocarbon -- bunch of carbons bonded to hydrogens -- with a double bond in the middle (the R and R' just denote lots&lots of, like, CH3CH2CH2CH2CH2, so basically just a long stretch of hydrocarbon with no wacky stuff thrown in; I used R & R' because you can't use R twice unless it's the exact same chain. In retrospect it would've been easier to just use R twice, so good call me.) Now, when naming this hydrocarbon chain, the hydrogens aren't important, so we just ignore them. If you do that, you'll see that, going from one side of the double bond to the other, the R and R' are on opposite sides (because ignoring the hydrogens just means not putting them in the name; unless otherwise specified it's assumed that all open bonds on a carbon are filled by hydrogen). That makes this a trans double-bonded hydrocarbon.

This is another long-chain hydrocarbon with a double bond stuck in the middle. All of the other stuff I said up there goes, only here if you just look at R and R' they're on the same side. That makes this one a cis double-bonded hydrocarbon.


Date: 2009-06-30 21:27 (UTC)
tiferet: cute girl in pink dress captioned "not all bad girls wear black" (Default)
From: [personal profile] tiferet
I use cis to describe myself all the time.

So I obviously don't get the hostile thing.

But I really have to say that reading essays where people talk about demands for apologies from ficwriters as though they were a G-d given constitutional right is going to be the first thing I demand everyone to warn me for when they institute the "you have the right to demand warnings for all your personal triggers" rule.

(No, you shouldn't apologise. I just hate it, particularly the way "fic in which X happens" turns into "fic that supports X" in some people's minds. When she said she puts writers who don't respond to this stuff on a list of people she doesn't pay attention to, I wondered if she knew how long some of our lists of people not to pay attention to are.)

Date: 2009-07-01 16:33 (UTC)
tiferet: cute girl in pink dress captioned "not all bad girls wear black" (Default)
From: [personal profile] tiferet
It was [personal profile] hederahelix's post.

I agree that sizism is a problem; I haven't read the fic she's talking about; but this whole business of DEMANDING apologies from writers because their fic doesn't suit your politics pisses me off, particularly when a fic is labelled "racist" or "sizist" or "sexist" because it depicts people doing things people actually do DO in the real world without turning into a didactic punishment-or-education story, and I have mostly refused to cater to it. Also while the writer of the fic did apologise, it was a Big Bang fic--doesn't that mean she was writing to someone else's prompt, or am I misinformed? I don't do many challenge fics.

I don't comment on posts like that because I'm living by Charles' Rules of Argument now (see my journal bio here) which means that I don't waste my time arguing with people whose minds are already made up and only engage in discussions of this sort when I am a) simply stating my case for the record or b) believe that everyone who is discussing the issue is more-or-less trying to figure it out, and so am I. There's nothing to be gained by butting heads with someone who's doing something they believe in and that you think is stupid and destructive, but I still have to fight the urge :/
Edited Date: 2009-07-01 16:36 (UTC)

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